This editorial captures some the frustration I feel about our approach to the Islamic world. Among the many mistakes this administration has made, one of the most baffling is its belief that it must flatter and cajole Moslems to get them to embrace Western-style democracy and values. The fact is, while there are many good Moslems in the world, their religion as it is practiced in most of the world today is inimical to our form of government and our values, not to mention modernity as a whole. Western civilization is by no means perfect, but it doesn't need to keep apologizing to Moslems or obsessively worry about upsetting their feelings. The problems in the Middle East have much less to do with mistakes made by the West than they do with deep-seated cultural and religious problems inherent to their societies. The sooner we stop pretending otherwise the better. Let them worry about how the rest of the world perceives them.
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"their religion as it is practiced in most of the world today is inimical to our form of government and our values, not to mention modernity as a whole."
What are the major differences between "their" religion and "our" religion that make it so "inimical"?
"Western civilization is by no means perfect"
Yeah, some of us already noticed that...Wounded Knee? 1890? Ring a bell?
"but it doesn't need to keep apologizing to Moslems or obsessively worry about upsetting their feelings."
Really? You have notice an obsession in the West with apologizing to Muslims and excessive concern about their feelings? Really? Have you watched any television lately?
" The problems in the Middle East have much less to do with mistakes made by the West than they do with deep-seated cultural and religious problems inherent to their societies."
Really? You don't think the fact that all the countries in the Middle East (with the exception of Iran and Egypt) had their boundary lines drawn exclusively for the benefit of Western colonial powers is a major cause of Muslim problems? If, say, China had invented countries out of whole cloth in North America about 80 years ago, would we now say any problems that resulted were mostly our own fault?
"Let them worry about how the rest of the world perceives them."
Again, maybe I'm missing something, but I haven't seen any excessive concern with Muslim PR by the West. Even during WWII, we at least tried to make the point that our war was with the Nazis, not the German people (we didn't draw that distinction with the Japanese). Can you cite some specific examples of this excessive sensitivity?
Let me also add that I agree that the "Muslim street" seems to suffer from a highly developed martyr complex and well-practiced offensensitivity that is used to great effect by more cynical leaders (kind of like fundamentalists in the US, only with thankfully much less violence). The editorial is right that Muslim countries employ a double-standard; but then, so does everybody else.
<< What are the major differences between "their" religion and "our" religion that make it so "inimical"? >>
Theologically, Islam believes there should be no distinction between church and state. Culturally, as it has evolved in the Middle East, Islam:
1 - Suppresses the rights of women.
2 - Suppresses the right of free speech.
3 - Suppresses the rights of other religions.
These are all fairly serious obstacles to democracy.
<< Yeah, some of us already noticed that...Wounded Knee? 1890? Ring a bell? >>
Actually, I think the flaws of Western civilization are a lot more serious and significant than that. Not to minimize the tragedy, but you can find events far more brutal than Wounded Knee in every culture on earth, including ours. I don't think the West's problem is that it's more violent than any other culture; I think the West's main flaw is an obsessively individualistic materialism that is progressively undermining the foundations of our own democracy.
<< Really? You have notice an obsession in the West with apologizing to Muslims and excessive concern about their feelings? Really? Have you watched any television lately? >>
Well, you're right in the sense that most Americans probably don't feel apologetic toward Muslims. But I'm thinking primarily of the way the Pope and various heads-of-state in the West have behaved in recent years, not to mention various talking heads in the mainstream media, who often mistakenly attribute most of the Middle East's problems to Israel and the West.
Which brings up the next point: yes, the way the boundaries were drawn up after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire is a huge source of instability in the Middle East today. But if you read any history of that region prior to WWI, you see that the two largest sources of violence in the Middle East (then and now) are not the national boundaries or the State of Israel. They're 1) the schism between Sunni and Shia, and 2) a deeply ingrained history of tribal animosity.
Hence my belief that the religion and culture of the Middle East are not fertile ground for democracy, and my exasperation with (what I see in the media, if not necessarily in the American public at large) the need of VIPs to fuel the myth that Middle Eastern Moslems are in the sorry state they're in primarily because of the West and Israel.
Oh, and I should add that I have no hidden agenda of trying to exalt Christianity over Islam. As you would probably point out, there was a time when Christian societies suppressed the rights of women, free speech, and other religions. All true. But thankfully Christianity evolved, and I hope Islam will too. I'm purely concerned with the here-and-now.
"1 - Suppresses the rights of women.
2 - Suppresses the right of free speech.
3 - Suppresses the rights of other religions."
Are those actually tenets of Islam (and if so, can you cite me to particular chapters of the Qu'ran?) or are they the way Islam is practiced in some countries? After all, Turkey, Bosnia, Malaysia and Saudi Arabia are all majority-muslim states, but behave VERY differently on each of those three points. Incidentally, and acknowledging that you are not making a Christian Dominionist argument, you could make precisely those same points against Christianity as well, using no source but the Scriptures themselves.
"Not to minimize the tragedy, but you can find events far more brutal than Wounded Knee in every culture on earth, including ours."
I only cited Wounded Knee as an example. However, there are only a few instances in the entire sick, sorry history of mankind that are close in scope to the extermination of 90-95% of the Native population of North America by European invaders.
"They're 1) the schism between Sunni and Shia, and 2) a deeply ingrained history of tribal animosity."
I can't dispute that, but you could easily make precisely the same point about the last 500 years of European history.
There are more quotes in the Quran on the inferior role of women than I have the time or interest to provide, and yes, they pretty much parallel Old and New Testament quotes on the same subject (for a small sampling of quotes on infidels, i.e. other religions and their “rights” under Islam, see below). Again, I’m not interested in comparing the historical virtues and sins of Islam and Christianity, but in the deferential and sometimes apologetic attitude of Western leaders toward Islam as it exists now, primarily in the Middle East. Specifically, is it more reasonable for our leaders to assume that a) Middle Eastern Islamic culture as it exists now is just as capable of embracing modernity and peaceful, pluralistic democracy as our is, or b) it’s not there yet? I would argue the latter, in bold print, underlined, with many exclamation points. I would say that most predominantly Moslem nations, with a few isolated exceptions, are about as amenable to modern democratic values as Europe was in the middle of the Dark Ages.
This really raises a separate issue of the relationship between religion and culture. I don’t believe there is, or ever has been, any truly Islamic or truly Christian nation in the history of the world, if by “true” we mean “completely true to scripture,” if such a thing is even possible (or desirable). Every religion is shaped by culture, and vice versa, until it is difficult to distinguish the two (one of the key points in Tocqueville’s “Democracy in America”). To the extent that there are successful (if not wholly stable or democratic, I would add) Moslem nations like Turkey and Indonesia, I would argue that they are more successful than Middle Eastern Moslem nations because of the different cultures there. Call a Turk, a Kurd, or an Indonesian an “Arab” and see what I mean. Arabic-Moslem culture, which is the one we’re most concerned with at the moment, is about as wholly incompatible with Western values and democracy as any on the planet. That’s why I was careful, in my first response, to use the words, “Culturally, as it evolved in the Middle East…” when discussing Islam. I guess I should have avoided the phrase “Moslem World” in my original post, since it was too imprecise.
Some quotes from the Quran on disbelievers/infidels:
O ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers .... and let them find harshness in you. (Repentance: 123)
Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute. (Repentance: 29)
O believers, do not treat your fathers and brothers as your friends, if they prefer unbelief to belief, whosoever of you takes them for friends, they are evil-doers. (Repentance: 20)
Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends.... whoso does that belongs not to God. (The House of Imram: 60)
"The unbelievers are like beasts which, call out to them as one may, can hear nothing but a shout and a cry. Deaf, dumb, and blind, they understand nothing" (2:172).
"How steadfastly they seek the Fire! That is because God has revealed the Book with truth; those that disagree about it are in extreme schism" (2:176).
"Slay them wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you. Idolatry is worse than carnage. . . . [I]f they attack you put them to the sword. Thus shall the unbelievers be rewarded: but if they desist, God is forgiving and merciful. Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme. But if they desist, fight none except the evil-doers"(2:190–93).
"Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. But you may hate a thing although it is good for you, and love a thing although it is bad for you. God knows, but you know not" (2:216).
Yes, yes, I know we can find many equally brutal parallels in the Old and New Testament. Again, I’m thankful that Judaism and Christianity evolved beyond such sentiments, and I’m baffled that anyone in their right mind could claim to believe the Bible is the “literal word of God” and should be followed to the letter. If we did that, there’d be a hell of a lot more bloodshed in the world.
"but in the deferential and sometimes apologetic attitude of Western leaders toward Islam as it exists now, primarily in the Middle East"
This is all easy to understand and can be summed up in one word: oil. If Saudi Arabia wasn't floating atop the world's largest petroleum reserves, you sure as hell wouldn't see photos of the President of the United States strolling hand in hand with a scion of the bloated, medieval, anti-Semitic, theocratic Royal Family. It has nothing to do with a bunch of namby-pamby, hand-wringing liberal pantywaists wanting to be "sympathetic" or "politically correct." It has to do exclusive with the economic ruling class of this country being willing to do or say anything, no matter how obsequious, in order to insure the continued flow of cheap oil, to which this country is addicted like a crack whore. Until that dependency changes, we will continue to bootlick the Wahabists in Saudi Arabia.
Good point, though I'm not sure it explains the Pope's recent acts of contrition in Turkey, where he essentially grovelled for forgiveness over some obscurely offensive remarks. Why aren't there any prominent Moslem religious leaders coming to the U.S. and apologizing for the anti-Western and anti-Semitic vitriol and violence that gushes from the region on a daily basis? Maybe there are, and I just don't read about it. Oh well. This is one of those things you can either gnash your teeth about until you die, or just shrug it off and move on.
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